Before any good conversation or interview in this case could start we needed some beer. I chose a nice seasonal Octoberfest beer and Josh would have a traditional lager. Few people may realize this but I've actually known Josh for a while. I knew him back before Milsim West was a house hold name and he spent time running around an indoor arena in Tacoma Washington that isn't even in business anymore. Those were the days when the Pacific North West seemed like the Wild West of airsoft to an East Coast guy like me. Now we are hardly bros and I was no Ranger, just a grunt out of the Army who ended up in the PNW for a while.
So tonight and a few beers was a bit of a reunion for guys that are far from where they first met. I'm running solo a semi-known airsoft blog that plenty enjoy and even more hate, after having left an airsoft podcast I co-founded, hahahaha!
Josh is one of the co-founders of the wildly successful Milsim West and co-founder of arguably the largest fraternity of players in the country, the Rushing Russians. It's safe to say we have both stirred up some controversy in our time but there is no doubt that Josh owns the national stand right now when it comes to controversy in the community. Now, some might see this as a turnoff because they say they are tired of the drama but like a wreck on the side of the road, you can't help but slow down to look.
Josh has become the Vince McMahon of the airsoft world with his theatrically aggressive approach to tough subjects, his competition and his attitude to those that just don't get it. Now what was the powder keg that exploded releasing Josh Warren on to the national airsoft scene in such a dynamic way? It wasn't just that Milsim West was growing in the Pacific North West and slowly expanding. The true catalyst was Blacksheep Milsim and its PTSD program that to many, many, many vets in the community including this grunt seemed just a little fishy. It all boiled down to what appeared and still appears to just be a marketing play to help a struggling event promoter. Being the gung-ho Ranger that Josh is he wasn't just going to stand by idle while he felt people were being taken advantage of.
As these events unfolded, Milsim West would catapult itself aggressively on the national stage going after the Blacksheep customers that once thought they had experienced the pinnacle of milsim gaming. So it would seem like this was a two-pronged attack on Blacksheep Milsim in an effort to eliminate a competitor. That's surely what Blacksheep would have you believe and his biggest supporters will also say. Josh admits to mounting a personal offensive against the Major and his PTSD program but never has Milsim West done anything other than compete and overcome a major competitor. If Milsim West is to continue to succeed and grow it must aggressively go after market share that may have once belonged to another producer.
Now I asked Josh about crossing the line or going too far to the point that it affects MSW. He explained how he is not MSW just like he is not the Rushing Russians. He is neither above nor beneath but another part of the organization that answers to his team mates and partner. Josh pushes the boundaries and Brian Clarkson reins him in if he feels Josh is going too far. In this way, they work together to decide what's best for their company’s growth. Now Josh did say a few rumors had gotten out of hand. Like him physically threatening Blacksheep and his family. If there's anything he wants to harm it's Blacksheep's business. Now that in itself may sound harsh but it is a business and there isn't room for everyone on the national stage. So sooner or later the new kid on the block is going to call you out.
Time for a refill and to switch gears a bit. So it's no secret Josh is the loudest most outspoken opponent to the Blacksheep PTSD program. But I asked if he was against the concept or just the program. He believes that he is not an expert to say what does and doesn't work but is not going to deny guys that say it helps. He does see a danger with living in the past when life is not just what you were once, a soldier, a Ranger, and so on. Because that in itself is what holds many vets back from finding a new way after the military. In a lot of ways I found Josh to be a great example of how a combat vet can retool their mind and identity to move forward away from who they were to who they can be. All those attributes that made him a great Ranger have made him a successful event producer and businessman. So he says not to forget about who you were and what you did for your country but realize that it is okay to find an identity beyond that. Because what comes after the uniform is meant to be the good stuff.
I won't deny the logic in his view because I find myself in that very position some times. Stuck on who I used to be to the point that I over glorify the life I think I still need. But the reality is that nothing was easy about being a grunt and being miserable way too often the reality of the situation. Yet I put on my gear and get on the field with my BB gun to pretend. I do feel better, like I'm connecting but am I really moving on? That's a tough question and since PTSD is about shades, it can all mean something different to each vet.
I told Josh I worry that the high level of negative exposure could hurt any future attempts by someone to come along and do things right with a program that does help some. While he may never totally jump on board as an outspoken supporter, he will not deny someone else the opportunity to find comfort or therapy in airsoft if it works for them. He just won't pretend to be an expert or tolerate those that say they are as they sell snake oil to the veteran community.
More beer and another topic. There seems to be a growing dislike or resentment of celebrity players at events. This is especially visible when they go to events in large numbers together. I've heard plenty of comments on the field and from the everyday Joe player. I wanted to know how Milsim West handled this and what Josh thought of this. He sees it as simply the Joe player trench talk. Soldiers in the field always gripe about the higher ups or units better equipped because that’s what they just do. It makes their time and experience feel more hardened. So they'll be like, it wasn't easy for me like it is for the celebs being taken care of. Now their experience is that more memorable or honest in their mind. I do want to point out that I’ve seen plenty of celebs in the mud getting dirty too. They fight shoulder to shoulder or even lead the charge at times. This growing dislike or resentment isn’t necessarily a bad thing either when you think about it. It is just another part of a culture that is forming around airsoft/milsim.
If that odd aspect of the culture that makes an individual’s experience that much better then everyone is happy. What could be more milsim than not just the look but a cultural similarity? Josh called it trench talk and it is a part of military life, no reason to be ashamed of it existing in milsim. Now there's no opportunity for this at MSW since there is no preferential treatment or illusion of it to be had. When you're a player on the roster you're a member of a unit and you better fall in or get left out in the wind without support. When you're going at it for over 40 hours you need friends and a unit watching your back as you sleep. Any internal animosity is directed outward to the enemy of adjacent units at it would be in the real military. That’s what you want in creating as accurate military simulation. There will be peaks in valleys at a Milsim West event but you are all there together in the mud ready to overcome anything.
For some, the enemy is the challenge, and for others the 40 hours outside their comfort zone becomes the real challenge. You stop being just another BB slinger and have to be prepared --- ready to fight and survive as a team participant. Any other event you have a choice, a choice to be an individual or a choice to be part of team. While many pay for their tickets and sign up for a side, they still see themselves as individuals. They are customers paying for an experience that they believe has value. So they expect to see and experience that value in the event being hosted. MSW does not seem to let it happen that way. Sign up, fall in and hang on for the ride if you can is Milsim West. That’s what Josh is selling folks. It is the experience driven by immersion he wants and that takes you buying all the way in. You cannot just be another customer expecting the host to hold your hand to see you happy.
Josh compared Milsim West to becoming the Go Ruck of airsoft. It is just more than achieving victory, that’s why they do not keep any kind of score he said. You will go into the weekend not knowing where the enemy is and what will happen but no matter what; when you finally take that group photo at the end you will feel a sense of achievement. Sounds like a good time and over beers very exciting to someone that has yet to make it out to one.
Obviously, I had to know what the future holds for Josh and Milsim West. What is the next step and where’s the next frontier you might say? He mentioned the Tactical Tailor line of MSW products and the growing partnerships within the industry that now are very much drawn to the MSW brand of milsim. I had to agree with that too, the industry is paying close attention to what Milsim West is doing. 2015 truly was the year of Milsim West and I guarantee you that 2016 will be reshaped based on what they have done. You can see it already in how the big brands lend their support to their style of milsim and game producers taking cues to redirect their own game play style. But as for Milsim Wests own future it is to keep gaining market share and brining people a form of milsim many have been waiting for. That achievement or Go Ruck style of experience is in Josh’s mind the next step. The masses are craving more and more of an in depth experience that challenges them personally and physically. MSW blazed the path and is only looking to take it farther. It is not for everyone but it is worth everyone trying. Much like the many beers we enjoyed tonight. I look forward to trying them in 2016 and reflecting on that experience.
One Grunt's Opinion,
Javier "Darkhorse"
All photos from Josh Warren's Facebook Page.
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About The Author
Javier "Darkhorse" Franco, formerly from This Week In Airsoft, runs his own Airsoft Blog on Facebook called "One Grunt's Opinion." This article has been posted here with the author's permission.